Congressman Has Written An Official Letter To The Navy Demanding Answers On UFOs

Joseph Trevithick
The Drive

The letter says that the unexplained sightings could reflect emerging threats to American airspace and domestic security.

member of the House of Representatives says the recent uptick in news regarding what many would call unidentified flying objects, or UFOs, something The War Zone has been a leading investigative source of, could reflect emerging threats to U.S. national airspace and homeland security, rather than simply military and intelligence concerns. Mark Walker, a Republican from North Carolina, has now written an open letter to Secretary of the Navy Richard Spencer asking for more details about what that service is doing to record and assess sightings of what are increasingly referred to as unidentified aerial phenomena, or UAP.Walker, who is a member of the House Committee on Homeland Security and the ranking Republican on its Subcommittee on Intelligence and Counterterrorism, wrote the letter to Spencer on July 16, 2019. He subsequently made it public on his website on July 29, 2019, three days after he went on Fox News' "Tucker Carlson Tonight" to voice his concerns.

"The reports mention the existence of these encounters both domestically and abroad during various [U.S. military] missions and trainings," Walker wrote in his letter. "Additionally, there have been reports of significant investments in advanced aerospace technologies like the recorded UAP encounters by China."

"If the accounts are true, the unidentified crafts could pose a serious security risk to our military personnel and defense apparatus," he continued. "As a member of the House Committee on Homeland Security and the Ranking Member for the Subcommittee on Intelligence and Counterterrorism, these reports are concerning from a national airspace and domestic security perspective."

You can read the full letter below.

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Another snake-like UFO spotted as mystery object 'emits energy beam' over Washington

Simon Green
The Daily Star

A smake-like UFO appears to have returned after a bizarre object was seen "emitting an energy beam" above the US state of Washington.

Alien enthusiasts were sent into a frenzy last month when a baffling UFO shaped like a snake appeared above the Mojave Desert in California.

Several weeks later, a similar object was spotted plunging from the sky before speeding off at breakneck speed over Colorado.

And now, a third "snake UFO" has been caught on camera.

The video shows a grey cylindrical shape hovering in the blue skies above Washington.

At first, it seems stretched out but then appears to move and reflect a bright beam of light.

"It's the middle of the day, no clouds, some weird cylinder-looking thing with a flashing light on the end," Athena, behind the camera, said.

"It's not a balloon, it's not a banner because there's no plane.

"It's just flat-up in the sky, it's been moving positions."

Athena sent the clip to YouTube conspiracy channel thirdphaseofmoon, who noticed a second object. See clip here.  

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‘Wow, what is that?’ Navy pilots report unexplained flying objects

MSM.com

WASHINGTON — The strange objects, one of them like a spinning top moving against the wind, appeared almost daily from the summer of 2014 to March 2015, high in the skies over the East coast. 

Navy pilots reported to their superiors that the objects had no visible engine or infrared exhaust 
plumes but that they could reach 30,000 feet and hypersonic speeds.

“These things would be out there all day,” said Lieutenant Ryan Graves, an F/A-18 Super Hornet pilot who has been with the Navy for 10 years and who reported his sightings to the Pentagon and Congress. “Keeping an aircraft in the air requires a significant amount of energy. With the speeds we observed, 12 hours in the air is 11 hours longer than we’d expect.”

In late 2014, a Super Hornet pilot had a near collision with one of the objects, and an official mishap report was filed. Some of the incidents were captured on video, including one taken by a plane’s camera in early 2015 that shows an object zooming over the ocean waves as pilots question what they are watching.

“Wow, what is that, man?” one exclaims. “Look at it fly!”

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Ibteesam Reaz, Staff Physicist at Lockheed Martin on U.S. Navy TicTac UFO Incidents

Cryptogon

So, these advanced crafts do exist— there is no question about it.

Via: Quora:

Ibteesam Reaz, Staff Physicist at Lockheed Martin

 

Don’t be naive and think the three USS Nimitz/Go Fast/Gimbal events are the only ones on the “official” books. Luis Elizondo, director of the governmental AATIP, has claimed there were “hundreds” of other incidents in the recent past which are not cleared for public release. But we needn’t care— there are thousands of governmental records (as disclosed via the Freedom of Information act) describing these craft with insane maneuverability as far back as the 40s. So, these advanced crafts do exist— there is no question about it. Here’s what we can say, noting this technology has stayed somewhat stagnant since the days of the “foo fighter” UFOs in WWII:

• • Someone has discovered a propulsion technology which does not rely on jets of gas or emission of particles, otherwise, we would see contrails. There are no sonic booms as the craft accelerates. This is a hint that the makers are using some esoteric form of propulsion (related to the gravitational field?).
  • Someone has discovered how to make: right-angled turns in all directions at supersonic speeds; almost instantaneous acceleration from rest and similarly almost instantaneous deceleration from supersonic speeds to rest. (I said ALMOST instantaneous— it may well APPEAR instantaneous due to an altered metric tensor. Thus, the apparent time taken for a maneuver would not be the same for the occupants of the aircraft.)
  • Thus, someone has discovered how to mitigate g-forces to a very large extent. A highly trained pilot can withstand about 10g’s. But craft described by the military regularly force their internal contents (note: occupants, if there are any) to experience hundreds of g’s. The USS Nimitz UFO dropped from 28 000 feet to 50 feet in 0.78 seconds … That is, for reference, 10 900 m/s. The craft’s other “buddies” (similarly sized capsules) previously had dropped from 80 000 feet to 20 000 feet in a few seconds.
  • At the same time, these crafts regularly “glow” in different colors. Red and green “firey” balls were infamously known as “foo fighters” in WWII, following Allies and Axis fighter craft in the night. Thus, the plasma field over their craft is a hint that indeed there is a lot of energy being produced by the craft since the particles are highly excited.

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COVERED UP: The Stuff You Were NEVER Meant To See...

secureteam10

Richard Dolan Interviews Gary McKinnon: UFO "Hacker"

Richard Dolan 

GARY McKINNON'S FIRST INTERVIEW IN YEARS. UK citizen Gary McKinnon is the most famous UFO "hacker" of all time. Arrested in 2002, he was in danger of extradition to the US for ten years. What he found was apparent evidence of a secret space program, including references to "non-terrestrial officers" and ship to ship transfers of vessels not in the U.S. military inventory. 

Moreover, a high-resolution photograph, taken from space, of a smooth, cigar-shaped craft. Gary also talks about the repercussions of being sought by the U.S. government, his depression, suicidal thoughts, and more. Richard Dolan is one of the world’s leading researchers and writers on the subject of UFOs and believes that they constitute the greatest mystery of our time. He is the author of two volumes of history, UFOs and the National Security State, both ground-breaking works which together provide the most factually complete and accessible narrative of the UFO subject available anywhere. He also co-authored a speculative book about the future, A.D. After Disclosure, the first-ever analysis not only of how UFO secrecy might end, but of the all-important question: what happens next? 

#RichardDolan For the home of exclusive content from author, historian, and radio host Richard Dolan.

What The Hell Is Going On With UFOs And The Department Of Defense?

Tyler Rogaway
The Drive

Few stories have garnered more requests from our readers for commentary than the recent news that the Navy has decided to very publicly change its reporting rules and procedures for when its personnel observes an unexplained phenomenon like a UFO and a USO. 

There have been wildly varying takes on this sudden change, but the truth is that it is very hard to know what to make of it considering how absurd it sounds-the Navy now wants to know about unidentified craft that can penetrate airspace over its installations and around its most capable naval vessels with impunity? Shouldn't that be a default position for a service tasked with defending American interests and controlling vast swathes of area above, below, and on the surface of the Earth? 

Politico was first to report on the Navy's new directions for reporting unexplained objects operating in the same environment as its vessels and aircraft. Politico's Bryan Bender writes:

"There have been a number of reports of unauthorized and/or unidentified aircraft entering various military-controlled ranges and designated air space in recent years," the Navy said in a statement in response to questions from POLITICO. "For safety and security concerns, the Navy and the [U.S. Air Force] takes these reports very seriously and investigates each and every report."

"As part of this effort," it added, "the Navy is updating and formalizing the process by which reports of any such suspected incursions can be made to the cognizant authorities. A new message to the fleet that will detail the steps for reporting is in draft."

To be clear, the Navy isn't endorsing the idea that its sailors have encountered alien spacecraft. But it is acknowledging there have been enough strange aerial sightings by credible and highly trained military personnel that they need to be recorded in the official record and studied - rather than dismissed as some kooky phenomena from the realm of science-fiction.

The Washington Post did their own follow-up to Politico's story, stating:

Recently, unidentified aircraft have entered military-designated airspace as often as multiple times per month, Joseph Gradisher, spokesman for office of the deputy chief of naval operations for information warfare, told The Washington Post on Wednesday.

Citing safety and security concerns, Gradisher vowed to "investigate each and every report."

He said, "We want to get to the bottom of this. We need to determine who's doing it, where it's coming from and what their intent is. We need to try to find ways to prevent it from happening again."

In recent years, from what we can tell, in part by the reporting done by The War Zone itself, is that there is no real way to distinctly classify something like a UFO or USO in such a way that it gets reported and an investigation occurs on an official level within the military. This appears to be true for civilian government institutions, like the FAA, as well. 

The lack of a structured procedure and classification system, and the nebulous fear of being stigmatized by reporting things like UFOs-something that has long plagued the military and private sectors alike-has repressed the conveyance of information in unquantifiable, but hugely significant ways. 

This reality has led to much speculation, and rightfully so, that the military knows far more about these strange happenings than they are willing to let on, at least on the surface. Otherwise, why wouldn't they want to know more about intruders wielding fantastic technology that makes them impervious to existing countermeasures and defenses?

Now all this appears to be changing on a grand level, but why? 

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The US Navy is Setting Up New Guidelines for UFO Reports: ‘Disclosure’ or More of the Same?

Daily Grail

Last night Politico released an article penned by Bryan Bender, which seemed to echo the mainstream repercussions with regards to a broader acceptance of the UFO phenomenon than the 2017 bombshells published by that same online news outlet, as well as the New York Times.

The news broke by Bender was that the United States Navy is currently updating their reporting protocols for pilots or other enlisted personnel who observe “unidentified aircraft,” in an effort to “creating a formal process to collect and analyze the unexplained sightings — and destigmatize them.”

This seemingly unprecedented move was evidently triggered by the recent public interest surrounding military UFO encounters like the ones between F-18 pilots and a group of white objects nicknamed “the Tic-Tacs” during a Navy exercise with the USS Nimitz in 2004. An interest that, according to Politico’s article, has also transcended into the power corridors of Washington and Congress, where unnamed lawmakers have been “briefed by senior Naval Intelligence officials as well as aviators” who have been involved in such encounters.

“There have been a number of reports of unauthorized and/or unidentified aircraft entering various military-controlled ranges and designated airspace in recent years,” the Navy said in a statement in response to questions from POLITICO. “For safety and security concerns, the Navy and the [U.S. Air Force] takes these reports very seriously and investigates each and every report.
“As part of this effort,” it added, “the Navy is updating and formalizing the process by which reports of any such suspected incursions can be made to the cognizant authorities. A new message to the fleet that will detail the steps for reporting is in draft.”

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Something BIG Just Hit The Ocean.. And NASA Is Looking For It

secure team 10

CONFIDENTIAL Ocean "Anomaly" Discovered Off NC Coast

Secure Team

Pentagon Acknowledges Secret UFO Investigation Program

New York Times

In the $600 billion annual Defense Department budgets, the $22 million spent on the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program was almost impossible to find.

Which was how the Pentagon wanted it.

For years, the program investigated reports of unidentified flying objects, according to Defense Department officials, interviews with program participants and records obtained by The New York Times. It was run by a military intelligence official, Luis Elizondo, on the fifth floor of the Pentagon’s C Ring, deep within the building’s maze.

The Defense Department has never before acknowledged the existence of the program, which it says it shut down in 2012. But its backers say that, while the Pentagon ended funding for the effort at that time, the program remains in existence. For the past five years, they say, officials with the program have continued to investigate episodes brought to them by service members, while also carrying out their other Defense Department duties.

The shadowy program — parts of it remain classified — began in 2007, and initially it was largely funded at the request of Harry Reid, the Nevada Democrat who was the Senate majority leader at the time and who has long had an interest in space phenomena. Most of the money went to an aerospace research company run by a billionaire entrepreneur and longtime friend of Mr. Reid’s, Robert Bigelow, who is currently working with NASA to produce expandable craft for humans to use in space. 

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CIA Releases 13 Million Pages Of Declassified Documents: Include Psychic Experiments, UFO Research

Zero Hedge

The Central Intelligence Agency has published nearly 13 million pages of declassified files online, documents which previously were physically accessible only from four computer terminals at the National Archives in College Park, Maryland.

The record include info on Nazi war crimes, the Cuban Missile Crisis, UFO sightings, human telepathy ("Project Stargate") and much more. The release has been a long time coming: Bill Clinton first ordered all documents at least 25 years old with "historical value" to be declassified in 1995. The agency complied, however anyone who wanted access had to trek all the way to the US National Archives in Washington DC to get a peak.

In 2014, a nonprofit journalism organization called MuckRock filed a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) lawsuit pressing the CIA to post all of its documents online, but the agency said it would take up to six years to scan everything according to engadget. At the same time, journalist Mike Best crowd-funded more than $15,000 to visit the archives to print out and then publicly upload the records, one by one, to apply pressure to the CIA. "By printing out and scanning the documents at CIA expense, I was able to begin making them freely available to the public and to give the agency a financial incentive to simply put the database online," Best wrote in a blog post.

"Access to this historically significant collection is no longer limited by geography," said Joseph Lambert, the CIA's information management director in a press release. The agency was aiming to publish the documents by the end of 2017, but finished the work ahead of schedule.

“We’ve been working on this for a very long time and this is one of the things I wanted to make sure got done before I left. Now you can access it from the comfort of your own home,” said outgoing CIA director of information Lambert. The agency continues to review documents for declassification, so the treasure trove has not been unearthed in full, and there’s definitely more to follow.

Read more
 

'Mind-blowing' video of mystery flying craft hovering near US military base in UFO hotspot

Ellie Ross
Daily Mirror

 The mystery craft was seen by a 'separate source' before this latest sighting 

The mystery craft was seen by a 'separate source' before this latest sighting 'Mind-blowing footage' has emerged that appears to show a UFO flying over a US military base.

The clip - which shows a mystery object in the sky - was filmed by a couple in Dayton, Ohio, as they were watching the sunset from their home.

The pair are clearly shocked by the sight of the 'craft' floating in the air with its pointed end and strange markings.

The woman, who is filming the scene on her phone, asks: "What the f*** is that?", before adding: "It looks like it's moving with the clouds."

Someone else can be heard saying: "That's f***ing crazy."

The camera zooms in on the dark object - before it fades into the clouds.

Another onlooker is heard saying: "Oh my god, it f****** disappeared."

   The mysterious 'craft' was also seen by different onlookers who took photos 

The clip was sent to Secure Team 10 , who describe themselves on their Twitter page as: "bringing exposure of the alien phenomenon and those trying to hide it back to the masses".

Owner Tyler Glockner can be heard commenting on the video, calling it "mind-blowing footage". 

He claims that this is the third sighting of the same object by "three separate sources".

Showing photos of a spookily similar object previously snapped in the same area, he says: "It's the same UFO. I am simply amazed, we have someone corroborating this sighting."

The video - which was filmed on Wednesday May 25 - was captured near the Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, which is ten miles from Drayton.

Between 1947 and 1969, the Air Force recorded 12,618 sightings of strange phenomena - with 701 of them classed as "unidentified", USA Today reports.

These sightings were recorded in Project Blue Book, the Air Force's files on UFO sightings and investigations.

Headquartered at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, the programme was reportedly comprising only a handful of staff.

It came to light in 2015, when amateur historian John Greenewald posted more than 100,000 pages of the documents to his website The Black Vault.

He had spent nearly two decades requesting declassified information from the US government regarding UFOs.

Started in 1952, the project was given a termination order in December 1969 - and all activity under the study ceased in January 1970.

At the end of this latest video, Glockner adds: "There is no doubt in my mind this is either an alien craft or a very very strange drone - which I highly doubt."

He also suggests a third possibility: "A back engineered alien craft that's being tested by some black project over at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base." 

10,000-year-old rock paintings depicting aliens and UFOs found in India

Rashmi Drolia
Times of India

Charama (Chhattisgarh): Chhattisgarh state department of archaeology and culture plans to seek help from Nasa and Isro for research on 10,000-year-old rock paintings depicting aliens and UFOs in Charama region in Kanker district in tribal Bastar region.

According to archaeologist JR Bhagat, these paintings have depicted aliens like those shown in Hollywood and Bollywood flicks. Located about 130km from Raipur, the caves come under village Chandeli and Gotitola.

"The findings suggest that humans in prehistoric times may have seen or imagined beings from other planets which still create curiosity among people and researchers.

Extensive research is needed for further findings. Chhattisgarh presently doesn't have any such expert who could give clarity on the subject," Bhagat told TOI. 

One of the ancient rock paintings carved on caves at Charama in Chhattisgarh's Kanker district.(TOI photo by Amit Bhardwaj) >>

There are several beliefs among locals in these villages. While few worship the paintings, others narrate stories they have heard from ancestors about "rohela people" - the small sized ones - who used to land from sky in a round shaped flying object and take away one or two persons of village who never returned.

"The paintings are done in natural colours that have hardly faded despite the years. The strangely carved figures are seen holding weapon-like objects and do not have clear features. Specially, the nose and mouth are missing. In few pictures, they are even shown wearing space suits. We can't refute possibility of imagination by prehistoric men but humans usually fancy such things," the archaeologist said. 

 

 © TOI photo by Amit Bhardwaj

© TOI photo by Amit Bhardwaj

He added that it is a co-incidence that such ancient images appear to have sharp resemblance to UFOs shown in alien movies. "The fan-like antenna and three legs of vehicle's stand clearly show a similarity to UFO type craft," he said.

Other archaeologists would also be consulted for further verification. 

   © TOI photo by Amit Bhardwaj

Astronomers Baffled By Mystery Radio Bursts From Space

Top Secret Writers

Baffled astronomers, surely not! A series of mysterious signals, known as Fast Radio Bursts (FRB), have left astronomers bemused as to what is causing the strange signals. So baffling is the occurrence that aliens have even been cited as possibly being responsible.

The light signals occur for several milliseconds and come out of nowhere. The occurrence was first detected in 2007, with only a handful of FRB incidents happening since.

In April this year, the latest rapid frequency bursts were sighted; their explanation still remains unknown. That has, however, not stopped people from speculating what the mysterious pulsing signals could be. Theories include the light being caused by colliding neutron stars and, predictably, that aliens are trying to make contact with us.

Due to the fact FRB’s occur sporadically and temporarily, these radio emissions are not only difficult to find but they are almost impossible to study.

It was in 2007 when the first FRB was picked up by radio telescopes. The temporary nature of the radio messages meant it took time for scientists to even agree that the signal wasn’t caused by a glitch in one of the telescope’s instruments. The signal lasted for just five milliseconds. It was named the Lorimer Burst after Duncan Lorimer, an astrophysicist at West Virginia University in Morgantown who made the discovery.

“This is something that’s completely unprecedented,” Lorimer noted at the time.

 Read more

Unidentified Metal Spheres Fall From Sky in China

 

Epoch Times

Metal objects in the form of spheres surrounded by jagged-edged crowns fell from the sky in northeastern China on Friday and Saturday.

Altogether, eight of these unidentified objects fell in the city of Qiqihar. State-run media outlets reported that one of the balls was a little over 2 feet in diameter and weighed about 90 pounds. Locals saw the fiery balls falling.

Some have speculated they are nitrogen boosters from aircraft, citing residual nitrogen gas found in one of the balls. Many online discussions included talk of alien spacecraft.

Russian news agency RIA Novosti reported that a carrier rocket malfunctioned and burned up over China on Friday, but that no debris could have reached Earth.

The head of the Russian Federal Space Agency (commonly called Roscosmos), Oleg Ostapenko, told RIA Novosti: “Reports have been confirmed that the carrier rocket, the booster and the satellite completely burned up in the atmosphere. This happened over Chinese territory. Taking into consideration the altitude of the orbit, we can definitely say that nothing reached Earth.”

Britain joins new hunt for E.T.

Comment: Rather like SETI this seems to be a colossal waste of money and indicative of a thoroughly myopic, if not materialistic view of the Universe. 

In my view, not only do we have a vibrantly alive cosmos teeming with "alien" life we also have our own military which has been conducting deep black projects outside of presidential / congressional oversight. Reverse-engineering from crashed craft and Faustian bargains between less than benevolent ultra-terrestrials appears to have been ongoing since at least the Second World War.

What this means is that essentially, is that the "aliens" are already here and indeed, may never have left. 

As a result, what we have is what Richard M. Dolan has termed a breakaway civilisation which has thrived from an advanced form of occult technology and which has appropriated that knowledge for its benefit at great cost to the whole. There are those who are attempting to leak information to the public and who believe that humanity can handle the revolutionary implications such knowledge dissemination would bring to light. The dominant faction within this civilisation believe the opposite, namely that humanity cannot handle the truth of the ultra-terrestrial existence here on earth and it's associated scientific and cultural influences.

They may have a point as it would certainly mean enormous upheaval, the likes of which we have never seen before. It would make the present geo-political uncertainties look like child's play. However, I think that people should know. Truth is truth. Objective reality should be honoured so that we can grow. And shock can be a great transformative force even if disintegration of the old is the initial result. 


----------------------------

The Telegraph

Britain has signed up to a space mission to hunt for extra terrestrial life on planets outside the Solar System.The European Space Agency’s Plato project will see a huge observatory launched into space to seek out Earth-like planets in habitable zones which could sustain life. 

The mission was described as 'truly awe-inspiring’ by science minister David Willetts who this week pledged £25 million to the project. 

“Space-based observatories have shown that rocky planets very much like Earth are almost certainly common in the Galaxy,” said Mr Willetts. “Plato is a mission to find and understand these planets and in particular to assess their potential for hosting extra terrestrial life. 


“If, or rather when, mankind travels beyond our solar system to new, habitable worlds, the first planet visited may well have been discovered by this.” 

Plato – an acronym derived from 'Planetary Transits and Oscillations of stars' – will be launched from Europe’s Spaceport in Kourou, French Guiana, in 2024. 

It will consist of an array of 34 individual telescopes mounted on a space probe and will be positioned at a 'Lagrangian Point’- where the gravitational pull of the Sun and the Earth cancel each other out so it can stay at a fixed position in space. 

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UFOs: Ben Rich Lockheed Skunk Works CEO admits on his deathbed

High Strangeness: SOTT Summary of UFOs and other paranormal stuff in 2013 and Fire in the Sky: SOTT Summary of Meteor Fireballs in 2013

Comment: The excellent sott.net still pushing the envelope on geopolitics, Earth changes, conspiracy and high strangeness. Some fine summaries on just how mysterious are world remains.

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HIGH STRANGENESS:

METEOR and FIREBALLS: 

The Secret's Out: Obama Acknowledges Existence Of Area 51

 

The Extraterrestrial Highway, so named because of reports of UFO activity along
the road, runs along the eastern border of the top-secret Area 51 base in Nevada.
|LAURA RAUCH/AP

NPR
Adam Wollner

At one time, Area 51 was one of the most famous military installations in the world — a place widely talked about, yet so secret that the U.S. government refused to confirm its existence.

That's why President Obama's reference to the southern Nevada base Sunday raised eyebrows. It marked the first time a U.S. commander in chief has publicly acknowledged the facility that fueled countless conspiracy theories.

Obama used the annual Kennedy Center Honors ceremony to crack a joke at the expense of actor Shirley MacLaine, one of the five award recipients, who has claimed to have seen UFOs on several occasions.

"Now, when you first become president, one of the questions that people ask you is, 'What's really going on in Area 51?' " Obama said. "When I wanted to know, I'd call Shirley MacLaine. I think I just became the first president to ever publicly mention Area 51. How's that, Shirley?"
Conspiracy theorists have been obsessed with Area 51 for decades, claming — among other things — the government is holding aliens and crashed UFOs there.

The 1996 blockbuster movie "" cemented that notion in popular culture by depicting it as a highly secure repository for extraterrestrial beings and alien spacecraft.

A year earlier, President Bill Clinton had added to the mystery surrounding the facility by issuing a declaring the site exempt from environmental disclosure laws following a lawsuit. Yet the document never actually referred to Area 51 — rather, it specified "the Air Force's operating location near Groom Lake, Nevada."

It wasn't until that the CIA confirmed the existence of Area 51, officially known as the Nevada Test and Training Range and Groom Lake.

The said the site served as a testing ground for aerial surveillance programs, such as the U-2 spy plane first used during the Cold War.

No mention of aliens or flying saucers, though.